{"topic":{"id":8420,"title":"想问问大家对新出的《网络游戏管理办法》看法","slug":"topic","categoryId":10,"createdAt":"2023-12-25 07:05:50.105587","bumpedAt":"2023-12-29 08:24:42.832939","views":552,"postsCount":19,"highestPostNumber":19,"likeCount":23,"closed":false,"pinned":false,"pinnedGlobally":false,"pinnedAt":null,"pinnedUntil":null,"isBanner":false,"excerpt":"国家新闻出版署关于公开征求《网络游戏管理办法（草案征求意见稿）》意见的通知 - 通知公示 - 国家新闻出版署 (nppa.gov.cn) RT，准备攒点意见提交一下。感觉好多内容管的太细了，就比如第十八条：网络游戏不得设置每日登录、首次充值、连续充值等诱导性奖励。还有第三十八条，不得向未成年人提供随机抽取服务。这搞得游戏行业人人自危了，上头一看不对劲今早还紧急发了批版号，可惜恰逢过洋节看不到港股的优异表现。","deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"category":{"id":10,"name":"游戏 / 娱乐","slug":"play","color":"ED207B"},"author":{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/04/f2/04f25a747d5b7292be2a8f7d8039bfafdb82194699286d9c463ed82dfb77da51.avif"},"tags":[]},"posts":[{"id":20285,"postNumber":1,"raw":"[国家新闻出版署关于公开征求《网络游戏管理办法（草案征求意见稿）》意见的通知 - 通知公示 - 国家新闻出版署 (nppa.gov.cn)](https://www.nppa.gov.cn/xxfb/tzgs/202312/t20231221_823187.html)\n\nRT，准备攒点意见提交一下。\n感觉好多内容管的太细了，就比如第十八条：网络游戏不得设置每日登录、首次充值、连续充值等诱导性奖励。还有第三十八条，不得向未成年人提供随机抽取服务。\n这搞得游戏行业人人自危了，上头一看不对劲今早还紧急发了批版号，可惜恰逢过洋节看不到港股的*优异表现*。","cooked":"

国家新闻出版署关于公开征求《网络游戏管理办法（草案征求意见稿）》意见的通知 - 通知公示 - 国家新闻出版署 (nppa.gov.cn)

RT，准备攒点意见提交一下。
\n感觉好多内容管的太细了，就比如第十八条：网络游戏不得设置每日登录、首次充值、连续充值等诱导性奖励。还有第三十八条，不得向未成年人提供随机抽取服务。
\n这搞得游戏行业人人自危了，上头一看不对劲今早还紧急发了批版号，可惜恰逢过洋节看不到港股的优异表现。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 07:05:50.179088","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 07:05:50.179088","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":186,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/04/f2/04f25a747d5b7292be2a8f7d8039bfafdb82194699286d9c463ed82dfb77da51.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20322,"postNumber":2,"raw":"凡是党中央作出的决策，我们都坚决维护；凡是党中央的指示，我们都始终不渝地遵循。","cooked":"

凡是党中央作出的决策，我们都坚决维护；凡是党中央的指示，我们都始终不渝地遵循。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 07:37:53.519325","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 07:39:53.383787","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":3,"wordCount":39,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":3,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"},{"id":1303,"username":"ddf4142","name":"学猹"},{"id":2859,"username":"NumberL","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20330,"postNumber":3,"raw":"不太关心股票，投资，政治。\n但是我玩的游戏这两天比例有点崩","cooked":"

不太关心股票，投资，政治。
\n但是我玩的游戏这两天比例有点崩

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 07:43:28.424366","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 07:43:28.424366","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":28,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":464,"username":"wxystudio","name":"studio","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20337,"postNumber":4,"raw":"对游戏玩家没什么影响，对股市有影响","cooked":"

对游戏玩家没什么影响，对股市有影响

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 08:07:12.890691","updatedAt":"2024-10-25 11:19:16.810061","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":17,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/76/3b/763b1e5ad8a424c4450bb26cea5ae532e7b1cd9da926ac5d99215d7123bf6002.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20342,"postNumber":5,"raw":"股市代表什么？资本！\r\n国家为了下一代人的心理健康操碎了心，出台这项颁发用心良苦，岂能被资本和被资本操控的舆论所裹挟？？\r\n\r\n[quote=\"kalt, post:1, topic:8420, username:kaltsit\"]\r\n第十八条：网络游戏不得设置每日登录、首次充值、连续充值等诱导性奖励。还有第三十八条，不得向未成年人提供随机抽取服务。\r\n[/quote]\r\n\r\n网络游戏害人太甚，早该管管了。","cooked":"

股市代表什么？资本！
\n国家为了下一代人的心理健康操碎了心，出台这项颁发用心良苦，岂能被资本和被资本操控的舆论所裹挟？？

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tkalt:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n
第十八条：网络游戏不得设置每日登录、首次充值、连续充值等诱导性奖励。还有第三十八条，不得向未成年人提供随机抽取服务。
\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t

网络游戏害人太甚，早该管管了。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 08:14:16.924034","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 08:14:16.924034","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":135,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/43/32/4332638c11248b8ff07033c11de0759a55205facfbec85e14458245a91991faf.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20352,"postNumber":6,"raw":"要是玩 3A 和单机确实没影响。我觉得对于国内流水排的上号的游戏来说，用户存留机制大改，玩家厂商都不讨好。再加上波及范围这么广，估计未来产出也会受影响。","cooked":"

要是玩 3A 和单机确实没影响。我觉得对于国内流水排的上号的游戏来说，用户存留机制大改，玩家厂商都不讨好。再加上波及范围这么广，估计未来产出也会受影响。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 09:00:22.582147","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 09:00:22.582147","replyToPostNumber":4,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":2,"wordCount":73,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":2,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"},{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/04/f2/04f25a747d5b7292be2a8f7d8039bfafdb82194699286d9c463ed82dfb77da51.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20355,"postNumber":7,"raw":"铁拳直接影响的是投资人的信任","cooked":"

铁拳直接影响的是投资人的信任

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 09:05:01.798143","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 09:05:01.798143","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":3,"wordCount":14,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":3,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"},{"id":1835,"username":"Dusk","name":"夕大画家"},{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1012,"username":"Ratled","name":"精神zjuer","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/89/ef/89ef07eb555027991fb26d221d8c82a190263dadfbc37bf3168f21f00fe77884.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20358,"postNumber":8,"raw":"是，但政策变化无常更是重量级，七月份才刚说不要出台阻碍民营经济发展的政策，年底就来个大的。","cooked":"

是，但政策变化无常更是重量级，七月份才刚说不要出台阻碍民营经济发展的政策，年底就来个大的。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 09:25:10.107084","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 09:25:10.107084","replyToPostNumber":7,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":45,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/04/f2/04f25a747d5b7292be2a8f7d8039bfafdb82194699286d9c463ed82dfb77da51.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20369,"postNumber":9,"raw":"略有了解。个人猜测：没有影响。\n新出了办法就讨论热度非常高，我想网络上对此是比较关注。这也是版号限制之后的一种情绪延续吧。版号的事对游戏业影响不小，加剧了负面评价倾向，办法出台后持有同一思想也是自然，认为不应加剧限制，或引申更广义的含义的意见不少。\n从细则（经常被人贴出的几条）来看，我比较支持。游戏为了诱导消费者心理下了很多功夫，作为管理机构对诱导行为的限制很合理。但是我也觉得按照想法实施过于困难，具体行为管制容易绕开，发放版号后后续管理措施也不容易做。\n至于股市是最不相干的，长期效应在长期体现，拿一天股价大跌自我佐证没有一点效力。","cooked":"

略有了解。个人猜测：没有影响。
\n新出了办法就讨论热度非常高，我想网络上对此是比较关注。这也是版号限制之后的一种情绪延续吧。版号的事对游戏业影响不小，加剧了负面评价倾向，办法出台后持有同一思想也是自然，认为不应加剧限制，或引申更广义的含义的意见不少。
\n从细则（经常被人贴出的几条）来看，我比较支持。游戏为了诱导消费者心理下了很多功夫，作为管理机构对诱导行为的限制很合理。但是我也觉得按照想法实施过于困难，具体行为管制容易绕开，发放版号后后续管理措施也不容易做。
\n至于股市是最不相干的，长期效应在长期体现，拿一天股价大跌自我佐证没有一点效力。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 10:58:45.938235","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 10:58:45.938235","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":3,"wordCount":266,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":3,"users":[{"id":299,"username":"sola","name":null},{"id":307,"username":"Fast","name":null},{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/0d/cd/0dcdf69d213b6798002779ad4b729567cd4d889ee4a56c07a8c4454e8b563219.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20370,"postNumber":10,"raw":"仅针对你提出的这两条：\n十八条管的过细的问题，这个是普遍问题，不管哪个领域都存在，只能说游戏之前逃过去了，要么是一刀切，要么是过于笼统留下很大的权力寻租空间，从这个角度讲细化反而是好事。\n而内容上我感觉也挺好的，最近的一张梗图*“如果一个游戏需要通过诱导性奖励而不是优质的游戏体验而留存玩家，我宁愿他死掉”*。国产手游行业整体就是畸形的，盲目追求高流水而不是真正形成一个“游戏产品”，改一改反而有利于精品出现。\n未成年方面一直是高压线，但是这个和未成年限制游戏时长一样吧，如果你获得了监护人同意那自然没问题。","cooked":"

仅针对你提出的这两条：
\n十八条管的过细的问题，这个是普遍问题，不管哪个领域都存在，只能说游戏之前逃过去了，要么是一刀切，要么是过于笼统留下很大的权力寻租空间，从这个角度讲细化反而是好事。
\n而内容上我感觉也挺好的，最近的一张梗图*“如果一个游戏需要通过诱导性奖励而不是优质的游戏体验而留存玩家，我宁愿他死掉”*。国产手游行业整体就是畸形的，盲目追求高流水而不是真正形成一个“游戏产品”，改一改反而有利于精品出现。
\n未成年方面一直是高压线，但是这个和未成年限制游戏时长一样吧，如果你获得了监护人同意那自然没问题。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 11:06:34.652804","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 11:10:45.644793","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":2,"wordCount":247,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"👍️","count":2,"users":[{"id":1540,"username":"kunrong_wang","name":"susss"},{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt"}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":2,"users":[{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null},{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":299,"username":"sola","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20381,"postNumber":11,"raw":"球球别管了，什么都要管，什么都要被领导。房地产、教培、互联网，现在是游戏，行业一个接一个遭殃。能不能不要头痛医头脚痛医脚，能不能公开透明地把规则定一下，互联网/电影/游戏/文化行业分级而不是由领导判断，放国外厂商进来竞争而不是圈地自萌靠周期性地大力发展/大资金涌入/大干特干取得几个用于吹牛的成果。","cooked":"

球球别管了，什么都要管，什么都要被领导。房地产、教培、互联网，现在是游戏，行业一个接一个遭殃。能不能不要头痛医头脚痛医脚，能不能公开透明地把规则定一下，互联网/电影/游戏/文化行业分级而不是由领导判断，放国外厂商进来竞争而不是圈地自萌靠周期性地大力发展/大资金涌入/大干特干取得几个用于吹牛的成果。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 12:10:09.748275","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 12:10:09.748275","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":149,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"😋️","count":1,"users":[{"id":431,"username":"anon10589529","name":null}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2689,"username":"PC1000","name":"PC1000","avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20418,"postNumber":12,"raw":"建立完善监管并非不对，但是在版号限制的死死的情况下，能创新的小厂根本争不过大厂；大厂又照着规则自我阉割，非 relevant 的东西都小心翼翼的，生怕触及红线。虽然规则细化了，但企业总是逐利的，肯定会上有政策下有对策。《办法》还给了最高十倍的罚款权，这权力最后会肯定下放到下面审查的机构，给地方官员更多操作余地了。总而言之，我认为缺乏充分竞争加上到处限制不利于产业的长远发展。","cooked":"

建立完善监管并非不对，但是在版号限制的死死的情况下，能创新的小厂根本争不过大厂；大厂又照着规则自我阉割，非 relevant 的东西都小心翼翼的，生怕触及红线。虽然规则细化了，但企业总是逐利的，肯定会上有政策下有对策。《办法》还给了最高十倍的罚款权，这权力最后会肯定下放到下面审查的机构，给地方官员更多操作余地了。总而言之，我认为缺乏充分竞争加上到处限制不利于产业的长远发展。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-25 16:19:34.575427","updatedAt":"2023-12-25 16:26:25.383478","replyToPostNumber":10,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":178,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":299,"username":"sola","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":2,"publicVersion":2,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/04/f2/04f25a747d5b7292be2a8f7d8039bfafdb82194699286d9c463ed82dfb77da51.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20521,"postNumber":13,"raw":"《中华人民共和国劳动法》第三十六条\n\n国家实行劳动者每日工作时间不超过八小时、平均每周工作时间不超过四十四小时的工时制度。","cooked":"

《中华人民共和国劳动法》第三十六条

国家实行劳动者每日工作时间不超过八小时、平均每周工作时间不超过四十四小时的工时制度。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-26 10:51:00.833785","updatedAt":"2023-12-26 10:51:00.833785","replyToPostNumber":1,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":59,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":true,"user":{"id":2191,"username":"anonymous","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false}},{"id":20531,"postNumber":14,"raw":"但是很遗憾，在目前国内受众群体的素质不变的情况下，文化产业加入完全自由竞争的结果只能是泥沙俱下，最终做臭“游戏”整个大类。\n和文化行业不一样，实体行业的产品好坏有社会基本统一的标准，因而厂商存在提升产品质量 - 获得良好销量 - 扩大营收的经营路径，从而将企业的逐利行为引导成提升产品质量这样有正外部性的结果。\n但是文化产业是一千个人心里有一千个哈姆雷特，即使厂商提升游戏质量，那也只能在有限的玩家群体里扩展影响；但与此同时，如果把精力放在套皮、粗制滥造、抄袭的手游上，通过精妙的数值和氪金策略能够直接获得大量营收。而且从目前市场来看，国内的受众对最后这种游戏接受度还挺高的。所以，一旦放开自由竞争，企业的逐利行为反而会导致粗制滥造的游戏泛滥，最后重新回到“电子海洛因”的污名化阶段。基于这方面考虑，我认为公权力的适当介入是合理的。（以及还有文化层面安全的考虑）","cooked":"

但是很遗憾，在目前国内受众群体的素质不变的情况下，文化产业加入完全自由竞争的结果只能是泥沙俱下，最终做臭“游戏”整个大类。
\n和文化行业不一样，实体行业的产品好坏有社会基本统一的标准，因而厂商存在提升产品质量 - 获得良好销量 - 扩大营收的经营路径，从而将企业的逐利行为引导成提升产品质量这样有正外部性的结果。
\n但是文化产业是一千个人心里有一千个哈姆雷特，即使厂商提升游戏质量，那也只能在有限的玩家群体里扩展影响；但与此同时，如果把精力放在套皮、粗制滥造、抄袭的手游上，通过精妙的数值和氪金策略能够直接获得大量营收。而且从目前市场来看，国内的受众对最后这种游戏接受度还挺高的。所以，一旦放开自由竞争，企业的逐利行为反而会导致粗制滥造的游戏泛滥，最后重新回到“电子海洛因”的污名化阶段。基于这方面考虑，我认为公权力的适当介入是合理的。（以及还有文化层面安全的考虑）

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-26 12:27:02.847438","updatedAt":"2023-12-26 12:27:02.847438","replyToPostNumber":12,"replyCount":2,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":374,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":1047,"username":"anonymous_coward_old","name":"Anonymous Coward Old"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":299,"username":"sola","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20550,"postNumber":15,"raw":"泥沙多了才能淘出金子嘛，国外平台商店里的大量高价小垃圾也看得我头疼。优秀的还是少数","cooked":"

泥沙多了才能淘出金子嘛，国外平台商店里的大量高价小垃圾也看得我头疼。优秀的还是少数

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-26 14:40:05.91336","updatedAt":"2023-12-26 14:40:05.91336","replyToPostNumber":14,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":41,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2642,"username":"hyouv","name":"hyouv","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/52/74/5274e9173dcaea6de608dc8dc759f8353860081a2613a5b1de6add9d74db0581.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20554,"postNumber":16,"raw":"[quote=\"sola, post:14, topic:8420\"]\n最后重新回到“电子海洛因”的污名化阶段\n[/quote]\n\n但这个“污名化”的话语权不在玩家手里，公权力说啥就是啥，不是玩家来倒逼内容升级。别的行业来说也基本是如此。当年”很黄很暴力“还有 09 年导致谷歌退市的所谓“涉黄”，基本都是明修栈道暗度陈仓，直接受众是缺乏话语权的。\n\n另外，实体行业也许并非是这么理想的。例如，*拼多多*。\n\n[quote=\"PC1000, post:11, topic:8420, username:PC1000\"]\n房地产、教培、互联网，现在是游戏，行业一个接一个遭殃\n[/quote]\n\n再就是“受众群体素质”的判定标准也不是很明晰，市场到底是不是这样运作的俺也看不出来。俺觉得无论审美水平高低，文化还是会有一个主流的认同感的， :poop:和金子，正常人还是能分辨出的。缺失的审美教育不能指望游戏来补上。","cooked":"

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tsola:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

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最后重新回到“电子海洛因”的污名化阶段
\n

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但这个“污名化”的话语权不在玩家手里，公权力说啥就是啥，不是玩家来倒逼内容升级。别的行业来说也基本是如此。当年”很黄很暴力“还有 09 年导致谷歌退市的所谓“涉黄”，基本都是明修栈道暗度陈仓，直接受众是缺乏话语权的。

另外，实体行业也许并非是这么理想的。例如，拼多多。

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tPC1000:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

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\n
房地产、教培、互联网，现在是游戏，行业一个接一个遭殃
\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t

再就是“受众群体素质”的判定标准也不是很明晰，市场到底是不是这样运作的俺也看不出来。俺觉得无论审美水平高低，文化还是会有一个主流的认同感的， 💩和金子，正常人还是能分辨出的。缺失的审美教育不能指望游戏来补上。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-26 15:12:16.960796","updatedAt":"2023-12-26 15:12:16.960796","replyToPostNumber":14,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":2,"wordCount":286,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":2,"users":[{"id":299,"username":"sola","name":null},{"id":1411,"username":"lwe","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/04/f2/04f25a747d5b7292be2a8f7d8039bfafdb82194699286d9c463ed82dfb77da51.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20599,"postNumber":17,"raw":"[quote=\"kalt, post:16, topic:8420, username:kaltsit\"]\n玩家来倒逼内容升级\n[/quote]\n\n但问题就是玩家无法倒逼内容升级，回到最初的话题上，引导氪金、每日奖励显然不是内容升级应有的内容；如果玩家能够倒逼内容升级，那显然应该会有大规模的“停氪”、“弃游”现象，让现金流从以设计氪金玩法的游戏转移到真正有独特内容、美术、设计的游戏上，但后者在长期实践中依旧寥寥无几。\n\n我没有比较实体行业和文化产业哪个更优良，只不过想指出自由市场在实体领域行得通，但在文化产品领域可能很难达到你期望的通过厂商在逐利的同时提升产品质量的目的，尤其在我国特殊的发展阶段、制度背景下。\n\n审美方面，还是我前面说的国情在此，公共文化产品势必要承担一定的宣传教化功能，毕竟“享受着阿美的自由，cn 的经济发展和公共服务”不是很现实，有得必有失。而且你说的主流认同感 emmm，现在市面上大游戏哪个不是一堆粉一堆黑。\n\n总而言之，没必要把公权力想的那么坏，公权力的介入是好是坏是一个很难说的话题，因为我们永远无法得知在社会这个复杂系统中如果公权力没有介入是什么样子（比如教培，我们看到双减之后各种乱象，偷偷补课、恶性竞争，但如果没有取消，蓬勃发展的教培是否会比现在更进一步摧残学生的发展也不得而知）。\n\n不过这两天看知乎上的相关问题发现了一个新的角度，前面咱们争论的还是关于产业发展未来的角度，知乎上有兄弟提出“在如此严格的制度藩篱下，有没有新的投资愿意进入游戏行业还是个未知数”，如果你要写建议书，个人感觉从这个角度对方案进行批判可能更有意义。","cooked":"

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tkalt:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n
玩家来倒逼内容升级
\n

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t

但问题就是玩家无法倒逼内容升级，回到最初的话题上，引导氪金、每日奖励显然不是内容升级应有的内容；如果玩家能够倒逼内容升级，那显然应该会有大规模的“停氪”、“弃游”现象，让现金流从以设计氪金玩法的游戏转移到真正有独特内容、美术、设计的游戏上，但后者在长期实践中依旧寥寥无几。

我没有比较实体行业和文化产业哪个更优良，只不过想指出自由市场在实体领域行得通，但在文化产品领域可能很难达到你期望的通过厂商在逐利的同时提升产品质量的目的，尤其在我国特殊的发展阶段、制度背景下。

审美方面，还是我前面说的国情在此，公共文化产品势必要承担一定的宣传教化功能，毕竟“享受着阿美的自由，cn 的经济发展和公共服务”不是很现实，有得必有失。而且你说的主流认同感 emmm，现在市面上大游戏哪个不是一堆粉一堆黑。

总而言之，没必要把公权力想的那么坏，公权力的介入是好是坏是一个很难说的话题，因为我们永远无法得知在社会这个复杂系统中如果公权力没有介入是什么样子（比如教培，我们看到双减之后各种乱象，偷偷补课、恶性竞争，但如果没有取消，蓬勃发展的教培是否会比现在更进一步摧残学生的发展也不得而知）。

不过这两天看知乎上的相关问题发现了一个新的角度，前面咱们争论的还是关于产业发展未来的角度，知乎上有兄弟提出“在如此严格的制度藩篱下，有没有新的投资愿意进入游戏行业还是个未知数”，如果你要写建议书，个人感觉从这个角度对方案进行批判可能更有意义。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-27 09:46:56.242081","updatedAt":"2023-12-27 09:46:56.242081","replyToPostNumber":16,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":606,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":299,"username":"sola","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20602,"postNumber":18,"raw":"嗯，感谢仁兄回复。我在建议里最后两条提到了这一点，大概就是要给投资者信心。目前给的枣还是太小了。","cooked":"

嗯，感谢仁兄回复。我在建议里最后两条提到了这一点，大概就是要给投资者信心。目前给的枣还是太小了。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-27 10:53:58.02345","updatedAt":"2023-12-27 10:53:58.02345","replyToPostNumber":17,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":48,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":2314,"username":"kaltsit","name":"kalt","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/04/f2/04f25a747d5b7292be2a8f7d8039bfafdb82194699286d9c463ed82dfb77da51.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":20750,"postNumber":19,"raw":"一张纸让股市大动荡，似乎已经是风声鹤唳了。","cooked":"

一张纸让股市大动荡，似乎已经是风声鹤唳了。

\n","createdAt":"2023-12-29 08:24:42.832939","updatedAt":"2023-12-29 08:24:42.832939","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":21,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":424,"username":"ascah","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/5e/97/5e97b59e771d24d1195b20454be3dd5ec6a74b6581b637ec88711aa70f6372bb.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}}],"hasMore":false,"lastReadPostNumber":6,"hasUrlPostNumber":true}