{"topic":{"id":13297,"title":"最近黑神话悟空挺火","slug":"topic","categoryId":4,"createdAt":"2024-08-23 03:14:35.268066","bumpedAt":"2024-08-26 07:26:42.695504","views":400,"postsCount":12,"highestPostNumber":12,"likeCount":14,"closed":false,"pinned":false,"pinnedGlobally":false,"pinnedAt":null,"pinnedUntil":null,"isBanner":false,"excerpt":"有没有玩的","deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"category":{"id":4,"name":"谈笑风生","slug":"general","color":"25AAE2"},"author":{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/86/f2/86f267c0aaa73835a999b7cc3a7e7a701605574eda9a2c2a56f5ddbbba64d1a9.avif"},"tags":[]},"posts":[{"id":38922,"postNumber":1,"raw":"有没有玩的","cooked":"

有没有玩的

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-23 03:14:35.507774","updatedAt":"2024-08-23 03:14:35.507774","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":5,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":307,"username":"Fast","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/86/f2/86f267c0aaa73835a999b7cc3a7e7a701605574eda9a2c2a56f5ddbbba64d1a9.avif","admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"","signatureCooked":null}},{"id":38925,"postNumber":2,"raw":"设备不行，买了没玩","cooked":"

设备不行，买了没玩

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-23 08:05:05.917927","updatedAt":"2024-08-23 08:05:05.917927","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":9,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":118,"username":"game","name":null,"avatarUrl":null,"admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":38929,"postNumber":3,"raw":"目前达到第四章了第三章有些地方掉帧好严重","cooked":"

目前达到第四章了第三章有些地方掉帧好严重

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-23 12:25:47.962349","updatedAt":"2024-08-23 12:25:47.962349","replyToPostNumber":2,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":20,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/86/f2/86f267c0aaa73835a999b7cc3a7e7a701605574eda9a2c2a56f5ddbbba64d1a9.avif","admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"","signatureCooked":null}},{"id":38931,"postNumber":4,"raw":"大部分技术是直接用 UE5 原生，同行测下来优化确实略微差了一点","cooked":"

大部分技术是直接用 UE5 原生，同行测下来优化确实略微差了一点

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-23 14:13:02.710473","updatedAt":"2024-08-23 14:13:02.710473","replyToPostNumber":3,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":28,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1381,"username":"greyishsong","name":"greyishsong","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/da/bc/dabc731b0311f59850625bbeb55ed969fcfac0430c5ef0f68441e5466b7aa496.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":38932,"postNumber":5,"raw":"个人感觉游科是美术领先于技术？实际游玩的过程中空气墙很影响体验，也出现了几次卡墙的情况\n不过这个扫描精度是真的牛逼啊 :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing_kissing_heart:\n国庆就去山西玩玩","cooked":"

个人感觉游科是美术领先于技术？实际游玩的过程中空气墙很影响体验，也出现了几次卡墙的情况
\n不过这个扫描精度是真的牛逼啊 $\":rolling_on_the_floor_laughing_kissing_heart:\"$
\n国庆就去山西玩玩

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-23 14:25:42.095283","updatedAt":"2024-08-23 14:25:42.095283","replyToPostNumber":4,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":66,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null,"avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/86/f2/86f267c0aaa73835a999b7cc3a7e7a701605574eda9a2c2a56f5ddbbba64d1a9.avif","admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"","signatureCooked":null}},{"id":38951,"postNumber":6,"raw":"黑神话销量过千万了，国内单机市场真可谓一片蓝海。祝贺！\n作为一个普通且业余主机玩家，谈谈我对黑神话的看法。\n首先，我认为黑神话的美术不美。好的游戏美术应该是一种艺术，从庞杂的现实细节里抽象出美的部分，再在游戏中展现出来。现实生活中很难做到两步一景，但是好的游戏场景可以通过构思和引导以及音乐等，营造出浓缩的美景，让人如入幻境。我仔细观看了黑神话开头打杨戬的片段，花果山仿佛是石头和树的堆砌，这样一座放在现实里甚至连 xA 景区都凭不上的山，有点拉低大圣的审美了吧。此外，战斗过程中给了杨戬那张僵尸一样的玉面一个特写镜头，联想起之前在门里看 g 佬提到面部建模的复杂性……猴脸怪物脸不太恐怖谷，至于人脸，还是扬长避短别给特写了吧。\n再说剧本，同样是那场大战，杨戬当着一众天兵天将骂狗，之后又骂友军，真是玉帝侄子官二代，有一种清澈的愚蠢。故事剧情基本上就是一路往上打，总之，天庭体制是腐烂的，满天神佛是邪恶的，一根大棒抡一切，我命由我不由天。这种叛逆叙事从什么时候开始盛行了呢？叛逆和驯服之间，一定有可以挖掘和探索的第三、第四及第 n 条路，叛逆让人玩爽，但关掉游戏机，又得陷入无尽平凡的痛苦中。如果游戏主角选择的道路能给我们一个解法、一个新的思考角度，这个游戏才能脱离美术和画面的牢笼。若干年后重新游玩，哪怕画面帧数是上上上世代的层次，游戏本身的思想依然能历久弥新。\n最后说说玩法。网传的黑神话玩法，一会儿是“类魂”，一会儿又说是“类战神”。我观看了战斗视频，猴头的棍法动作模组居然只有一套，在战斗过程中，猴打猴的，怪打怪的，呈现在动作上的打击反馈很少，而且也许因为国内玩家还是键鼠➕PC 为主，手柄振动反馈这方面不是非常重视，不说细腻的手感，甚至有的平台，手柄连振动都经常丢失。遗憾！战斗演出方面，并不是敌人越大演出就越精彩，演出是游戏艺术的集大成体现，特效、音乐、动作、分镜、过场、优化等各个方面，一项有不足短板效应就很明显。这方面国产游戏或许还有很长的路要有。\n\n虽然都是不足的地方，但是黑神话最成功的一点还得是证明了国内单机市场的潜力。但愿资本们不要送走了一波“类原神”开放世界，又送来一批“类黑猴”魂类动作。单机市场不能靠一类游戏支撑起来，国产游戏百花齐放，才是玩家真正想要的。","cooked":"

黑神话销量过千万了，国内单机市场真可谓一片蓝海。祝贺！
\n作为一个普通且业余主机玩家，谈谈我对黑神话的看法。
\n首先，我认为黑神话的美术不美。好的游戏美术应该是一种艺术，从庞杂的现实细节里抽象出美的部分，再在游戏中展现出来。现实生活中很难做到两步一景，但是好的游戏场景可以通过构思和引导以及音乐等，营造出浓缩的美景，让人如入幻境。我仔细观看了黑神话开头打杨戬的片段，花果山仿佛是石头和树的堆砌，这样一座放在现实里甚至连 xA 景区都凭不上的山，有点拉低大圣的审美了吧。此外，战斗过程中给了杨戬那张僵尸一样的玉面一个特写镜头，联想起之前在门里看 g 佬提到面部建模的复杂性……猴脸怪物脸不太恐怖谷，至于人脸，还是扬长避短别给特写了吧。
\n再说剧本，同样是那场大战，杨戬当着一众天兵天将骂狗，之后又骂友军，真是玉帝侄子官二代，有一种清澈的愚蠢。故事剧情基本上就是一路往上打，总之，天庭体制是腐烂的，满天神佛是邪恶的，一根大棒抡一切，我命由我不由天。这种叛逆叙事从什么时候开始盛行了呢？叛逆和驯服之间，一定有可以挖掘和探索的第三、第四及第 n 条路，叛逆让人玩爽，但关掉游戏机，又得陷入无尽平凡的痛苦中。如果游戏主角选择的道路能给我们一个解法、一个新的思考角度，这个游戏才能脱离美术和画面的牢笼。若干年后重新游玩，哪怕画面帧数是上上上世代的层次，游戏本身的思想依然能历久弥新。
\n最后说说玩法。网传的黑神话玩法，一会儿是“类魂”，一会儿又说是“类战神”。我观看了战斗视频，猴头的棍法动作模组居然只有一套，在战斗过程中，猴打猴的，怪打怪的，呈现在动作上的打击反馈很少，而且也许因为国内玩家还是键鼠➕PC 为主，手柄振动反馈这方面不是非常重视，不说细腻的手感，甚至有的平台，手柄连振动都经常丢失。遗憾！战斗演出方面，并不是敌人越大演出就越精彩，演出是游戏艺术的集大成体现，特效、音乐、动作、分镜、过场、优化等各个方面，一项有不足短板效应就很明显。这方面国产游戏或许还有很长的路要有。

虽然都是不足的地方，但是黑神话最成功的一点还得是证明了国内单机市场的潜力。但愿资本们不要送走了一波“类原神”开放世界，又送来一批“类黑猴”魂类动作。单机市场不能靠一类游戏支撑起来，国产游戏百花齐放，才是玩家真正想要的。

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-23 18:41:16.537205","updatedAt":"2024-08-23 18:44:01.233427","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":9,"wordCount":924,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":9,"users":[{"id":307,"username":"Fast","name":null},{"id":346,"username":"hoist","name":null},{"id":1029,"username":"dailg2019","name":null},{"id":1381,"username":"greyishsong","name":"greyishsong"},{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null},{"id":5151,"username":"Soyo34325","name":"Soyo34325"},{"id":5407,"username":"Tanp","name":"Tanp"},{"id":5657,"username":"CR-V","name":null},{"id":6205,"username":"uika_winwing","name":null}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":20,"username":"QuantumAssHitter","name":"量子打屁手","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/11/bb/11bb34e51df1e31c5ac30d9942688dc13c74a41db4ea7e5747250d132dbdd1a2.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":39004,"postNumber":7,"raw":"黑神话的开发团队规模是远比 3A 游戏小的，有很多漏洞并不奇怪。在能基本达到 3A 游戏美术水准的前提下，维持故事叙事的完整性，已经让人惊叹了。\n\n实际上大多数 3A 游戏或多或少都有点“剧情不够，画面来凑”的问题。个人认为这是因为好的剧情是反复删改出来的，而以 3A 的美术要求，删改剧情（同时意味着删改大量美术资产）的成本非常可怕。相反，写一部四平八稳的剧本，然后用强烈的画面震撼来吸引玩家，是试错成本更低的选择。\n\n你有提到一步一景的问题，想要做到这一点实在不容易。而且在一个动作游戏里，有多少玩家会去用心体验景物设计的巧思值得商榷。相比之下，可能动作反馈和战斗手感的缺陷会是游科更着急去改善的，毕竟有很多玩家如果感觉“打得不爽”是会差评甚至退款的。\n\n只以游戏设计和美术风格论，我感觉国内近几年的独立游戏（比如《戴森球计划》《波西亚时光/沙石镇时光》《暗影火炬城》）反而更胜一筹。黑神话的价值更像当年的《流浪地球》，是国内第一次在游戏工业上取得了比较好的成果，具备了协调大量的美术和技术工作、抓住主线推进开发的能力，这是以前游戏大厂制作长线运营的手游/网游时所不具备的。","cooked":"

黑神话的开发团队规模是远比 3A 游戏小的，有很多漏洞并不奇怪。在能基本达到 3A 游戏美术水准的前提下，维持故事叙事的完整性，已经让人惊叹了。

实际上大多数 3A 游戏或多或少都有点“剧情不够，画面来凑”的问题。个人认为这是因为好的剧情是反复删改出来的，而以 3A 的美术要求，删改剧情（同时意味着删改大量美术资产）的成本非常可怕。相反，写一部四平八稳的剧本，然后用强烈的画面震撼来吸引玩家，是试错成本更低的选择。

你有提到一步一景的问题，想要做到这一点实在不容易。而且在一个动作游戏里，有多少玩家会去用心体验景物设计的巧思值得商榷。相比之下，可能动作反馈和战斗手感的缺陷会是游科更着急去改善的，毕竟有很多玩家如果感觉“打得不爽”是会差评甚至退款的。

只以游戏设计和美术风格论，我感觉国内近几年的独立游戏（比如《戴森球计划》《波西亚时光/沙石镇时光》《暗影火炬城》）反而更胜一筹。黑神话的价值更像当年的《流浪地球》，是国内第一次在游戏工业上取得了比较好的成果，具备了协调大量的美术和技术工作、抓住主线推进开发的能力，这是以前游戏大厂制作长线运营的手游/网游时所不具备的。

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-24 13:45:54.658285","updatedAt":"2024-08-24 13:45:54.658285","replyToPostNumber":6,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":3,"wordCount":467,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"❤️","count":3,"users":[{"id":20,"username":"QuantumAssHitter","name":"量子打屁手"},{"id":4668,"username":"IO","name":null},{"id":5151,"username":"Soyo34325","name":"Soyo34325"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":1381,"username":"greyishsong","name":"greyishsong","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/da/bc/dabc731b0311f59850625bbeb55ed969fcfac0430c5ef0f68441e5466b7aa496.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":39019,"postNumber":8,"raw":"看不懂剧情，战斗全程坐牢，刮痧总能刮死，连段懒得学","cooked":"

看不懂剧情，战斗全程坐牢，刮痧总能刮死，连段懒得学

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-25 01:10:18.053675","updatedAt":"2024-08-25 01:10:18.053675","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":25,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":426,"username":"Komeiji_Koishi","name":"Komeiji_Koishi","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/5c/54/5c54227268cd2f275501ca5efdf88f7b1083908db846496c2c46eeb38cf65caa.avif","admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":39020,"postNumber":9,"raw":"我觉得玩黑神话默认你懂西游记是很差劲的一点。即使是中国人大部分也都是小时候看的西游记，没几个人现在还记得那些妖怪。。。明明可以在对话里给你讲讲剧情，非要放在图鉴小作文里，没人愿意看。。。我也不喜欢游戏里植入太多传统文化的东西，就算是日本游戏我也最烦张口闭口各种典故的那种。。。非要讲传统文化也不是不行，就不要默认玩家都知道然后谜语人就好。。。至于美术，反正我不 care，无所谓。。。战斗的话不是 PVP 我就懒得像拳皇和则一样研究那些配招连段。。。就当支持国产了，玩了这游戏后起码以后可以装个西游记懂哥。。。","cooked":"

我觉得玩黑神话默认你懂西游记是很差劲的一点。即使是中国人大部分也都是小时候看的西游记，没几个人现在还记得那些妖怪。。。明明可以在对话里给你讲讲剧情，非要放在图鉴小作文里，没人愿意看。。。我也不喜欢游戏里植入太多传统文化的东西，就算是日本游戏我也最烦张口闭口各种典故的那种。。。非要讲传统文化也不是不行，就不要默认玩家都知道然后谜语人就好。。。至于美术，反正我不 care，无所谓。。。战斗的话不是 PVP 我就懒得像拳皇和则一样研究那些配招连段。。。就当支持国产了，玩了这游戏后起码以后可以装个西游记懂哥。。。

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-25 01:15:47.494073","updatedAt":"2024-08-25 01:15:47.494073","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":1,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":232,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":426,"username":"Komeiji_Koishi","name":"Komeiji_Koishi","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/5c/54/5c54227268cd2f275501ca5efdf88f7b1083908db846496c2c46eeb38cf65caa.avif","admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":39021,"postNumber":10,"raw":"迷路在我这倒不是啥问题，我还挺喜欢瞎转悠探图翻各种资源的，反正就按照右手法则欧拉序 DFS 就完了","cooked":"

迷路在我这倒不是啥问题，我还挺喜欢瞎转悠探图翻各种资源的，反正就按照右手法则欧拉序 DFS 就完了

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-25 01:21:54.519827","updatedAt":"2024-08-25 01:22:29.398227","replyToPostNumber":null,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":1,"wordCount":45,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[{"reaction":"rolling_on_the_floor_laughing_kissing_heart","count":1,"users":[{"id":30,"username":"一只玉米人","name":"玉米🌽"}],"hasReacted":false},{"reaction":"❤️","count":1,"users":[{"id":30,"username":"一只玉米人","name":"玉米🌽"}],"hasReacted":false}],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":426,"username":"Komeiji_Koishi","name":"Komeiji_Koishi","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/5c/54/5c54227268cd2f275501ca5efdf88f7b1083908db846496c2c46eeb38cf65caa.avif","admin":true,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":39054,"postNumber":11,"raw":"看到一个观点：黑神话默认大家都读过的不是西游记，是《悟空传》 :anguished:","cooked":"

看到一个观点：黑神话默认大家都读过的不是西游记，是《悟空传》 😧

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-26 05:42:32.908788","updatedAt":"2024-08-26 05:42:32.908788","replyToPostNumber":9,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":31,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":20,"username":"QuantumAssHitter","name":"量子打屁手","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/11/bb/11bb34e51df1e31c5ac30d9942688dc13c74a41db4ea7e5747250d132dbdd1a2.avif","admin":false,"moderator":true,"signatureRaw":null,"signatureCooked":null}},{"id":39057,"postNumber":12,"raw":"[quote=\"greyishsong, post:7, topic:13297, username:greyishsong\"]\n黑神话的价值更像当年的《流浪地球》，是国内第一次在游戏工业上取得了比较好的成果，具备了协调大量的美术和技术工作、抓住主线推进开发的能力，这是以前游戏大厂制作长线运营的手游/网游时所不具备的。\n[/quote]\n\n第一个参加高考的而且成绩还不错 :blush:","cooked":"

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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tgreyishsong:\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

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黑神话的价值更像当年的《流浪地球》，是国内第一次在游戏工业上取得了比较好的成果，具备了协调大量的美术和技术工作、抓住主线推进开发的能力，这是以前游戏大厂制作长线运营的手游/网游时所不具备的。
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第一个参加高考的而且成绩还不错 😊

\n","createdAt":"2024-08-26 07:26:42.695504","updatedAt":"2024-08-26 07:26:42.695504","replyToPostNumber":7,"replyCount":0,"likeCount":0,"wordCount":115,"liked":false,"bookmarked":false,"polls":[],"reactions":[],"wiki":false,"version":1,"publicVersion":1,"deletedAt":null,"isAnonymous":false,"user":{"id":5151,"username":"Soyo34325","name":"Soyo34325","avatarUrl":"/uploads/image/9d/e5/9de500d3afb55c0fe71e319832f2af75532222efe94bd3de9aea21f0f5c55707.avif","admin":false,"moderator":false,"signatureRaw":"ぜーんぶ弾けなーい！","signatureCooked":"

ぜーんぶ弾けなーい！

\n"}}],"hasMore":false,"lastReadPostNumber":6,"hasUrlPostNumber":true}